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Apparently Russian troops have now nearly taken  the city of Gori:

Georgian city of Gori falling to Russian military as territorial crisis spreads beyond breakaway region, Georgian officials say.

This is breaking at CNN.

Aftger the flip more news from the region

So, the Russians have pretty much taken Gori. Here is a map, and as you can see, that is well beyond South Ossetia:

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At the same time some reports are saying that Russian troops are advancing from Abkhazia, opening a second front. They now have :

The Georgia Interior Ministry also said Zugdidi and Senaki -- towns near the other breakaway region of Abkhazia -- were also now under Russian control.

And CNN is reporting that the Georgian army is leaving Gori. Apparently the army is unable to stop the Russian advance.

So, what to expect in the next few days? There is a ceasefire proposal from OSCE, but it is likely that Moscow will not accept it. That means the war will continue.

There are some details that worry me, especially this:

Both Georgia and Russia claim that ethnic Georgians and ethnic Russians are wrongly being detained in the conflict over South Ossetia.

This is just my speculation, but i can see no reason why these scenarios cannot happen:

If Georgia loses badly, will they kill some of those civilians? I can see that happening.

Will the Ossetians "revenge" the destruction of the Ossetian capital by killing civilians?

Will the Russians kill Civilains because of poor discipline in the army (like in Checnya)

And if there are foreign mercenaries in Georgia, will they kill civilians (like in Iraq)?

This is one big reason why i would like to see the fighting end soon.

The quickest way is for Saakashvili to resign. He gambled and lost. I don't know why he attacked, he must have known about the Russian 58th army on the other side of the border.

Putin has said the old status quo may not come back. This would mean more Russian troops in South Ossetia. If there is no international agreement on the secession of SOuth Ossetia, then the crisis will continue. A referendum would make sense.

But even then Abkhazia would remain as a problem..

But if there is to be a ceasefire, it is for Moscow to decide when and at what is the price for Georgia to pay.

The lesson seems to be that Russia has a somewhat capable military and apparently they are flexing some muscles. US/EU policy is failing, or at least this is a setback. Clearly the west has been succesfull in advancing into Russian sphere of influence. Now there is some need to reevaluate this policy. Afghanistan and Iraq have depleted some western resources, but how much?

Russia is now stronger than it was during Yeltsin. Of course they are still weak, but now it is time to rethink the policy.

EDIT:Russia has now taken Senaki, that is located in west Georgia

EDIT II:
Moscow has rejected the EU/OSCE ceasefire offer. They are saying tha Georgia must negotiate with South Ossetia.

EDIT III:

LONDON (Reuters) - Georgia made a strategic miscalculation in trying to rapidly overrun South Ossetia, and as a result has probably lost the region for good, regional analysts say.

While Russian-backed separatists in the breakaway Georgian region helped provoke Georgia into action, it was the belief that its troops could secure a lightning victory that underpinned Georgia's decision to attack.

"The Georgians rolled the dice and they lost," said Michael Denison, an expert in Russian and Eurasian affairs at Chatham House, a London-based security think tank.

"It was not an unreasonable calculation to go for a rapid win, but in the end it was a miscalculation."

Originally posted to allmost liberal european on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 09:45 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Bush looked into Putin's eyes (18+ / 0-)

    and saw his soul. Putin looked at Bush and thought 'What a dumbass. I can do whatever I want.'

    •  And there they sit (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Subversive, MariaWr

      side by side at the Olympics chatting and laughing with Bush still looking dreamily into Putin's soulful eyes...Bush thinking sadly, "oh Puties getting to be a dictator before me. Damn. Dickie...what should I do now. Oh I know. I'll just keep looking like an overaged fratboy and get a quick feel off some Olympic volleyball cuties. Life really ain't so bad."

      All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.... Edmund Burke

      by cloudwatcher on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 09:59:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Georgia is losing ground (13+ / 0-)

    And they are losing ground fast. I don't see Russia trying to annex Georgia, but i don't think there is much time left for Saakashvili.

    He should do what is right for his people, even if/when it will be the end of his career in Georgia.

  •  You think they are weak? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cloudwatcher, MAORCA

    They have the capability to blow up the world in roughly 30 minutes, that doesn't sound weak to me.

    "The important thing is not that we can live on hope alone, but that life is not worth living without it." --Harvey Milk

    by pollbuster on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 09:53:39 AM PDT

    •  That is only strong if (3+ / 0-)

      you are a nihilist. Being a nuclear power does not make your country strong. Is N. Korea strong?  

      "When I get in a conflict, I try to walk a mile in the other guys shoes. When it works I'm a mile away from them, and I have their shoes!"

      by Something the Dog Said on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 09:55:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, but claiming Russia has a "somewhat capable" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cloudwatcher

        military is quite an understatement.

        McCain - Worse than Bush

        by MAORCA on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 09:58:35 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  How can you possibly (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dauphin, dotdot

         compare North Korea's nuclear arsenal to Russia's? The former barely has a capability, while Russian ICBM's can basically be sent anywhere in the world.

        Russia shows it's strength by this present action, because they know that it is their nuclear capability that prevents the United States, and/or NATO to respond militarily to Russia's actions.

        "The important thing is not that we can live on hope alone, but that life is not worth living without it." --Harvey Milk

        by pollbuster on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 10:05:19 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The use of nuclear weapons is (0+ / 0-)

          always a strategic one, never tactical, because once you open that can of worms it is immediately out of your control.

          Unless they really want to end the world, there is no way they will use nuclear weapons. There is no "limited " exchange when you get the US involved. This is why you are wrong about the NATO and US response. We could go in with conventional arms because we know the Russians will not use nukes, just as they know we will not.  

          "When I get in a conflict, I try to walk a mile in the other guys shoes. When it works I'm a mile away from them, and I have their shoes!"

          by Something the Dog Said on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 10:15:50 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm confused (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            pollbuster

            The use of nuclear weapons is always a strategic one...

            What is "strategic" about using nuclear weapons? Okay, I'll blow up your world so you can't blow up mine? Same world isn't it?

            All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.... Edmund Burke

            by cloudwatcher on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 10:19:54 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  An attack on Russia by the USA or Nato (0+ / 0-)

            would be met with a nuclear response, that's why they wouldn't do it. Do you actually think they would just sit by and allow themselves to be pummelled as if they were some version of Iraq?

            "The important thing is not that we can live on hope alone, but that life is not worth living without it." --Harvey Milk

            by pollbuster on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 10:49:48 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  And in the the same vein, (0+ / 0-)

             unless they want to end the world, there is no way that the USA or NATO would ever attack Russia.

            "The important thing is not that we can live on hope alone, but that life is not worth living without it." --Harvey Milk

            by pollbuster on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 10:51:50 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  And why shouldn't Russia exert power? (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          pollbuster, phonegery, dotdot

          Sometimes I get the feeling that people think America is the only rightful power in the world.

          Evolution is an incremental project.

          by Common Cents on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 10:41:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  The Russians are going to storm Tblisi (5+ / 0-)

    Russia has a somewhat capable military

    compared to what? The Georgian army? Look at these AP numbers:

    _ MILITARY SPENDING: Russia's military budget is equivalent to about $40 billion this year, compared to Georgia's $997 million.

    _ STRENGTH: Russia has 1.1 million soldiers, Georgia has 37,000.

    _ ARSENALS: The Russian armed forces have about 6,000 tanks and some 1,700 combat aircraft. Georgia has 230 tanks and 12 combat aircraft.

    No, the Russians are going to take the capital. Putin has already compared Georgia with Iraq, complete with the call for regime change. It's going to get much uglier. :(

    This message has been intercepted by the US Government. Report all suspicious activity to your dear leader. Fear the non-believers.

    by minorityusa on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 09:56:35 AM PDT

  •  Georgia (5+ / 0-)

    Was nuts to go in in the first place.  Not sure why they thought Russia wouldn't get involved, there's kind of a history there...and they had said things in the near past that attacking S. Ossetia would be suicidal for the Georgian government to do.  Did Saakashvili really think NATO and the USA would go to war with Russia over them?

    All this being said, I think that there really is no good-bad in any of this.  Just a lot of shades of gray which makes it all the more confusing.

    OH-16: John Boccieri will finally end 36 years of Regula Rule.

    by marcvstraianvs on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 09:56:53 AM PDT

    •  I agree (0+ / 0-)

      I still don't know why Saakashvili tried to take South Ossetia. Did someone tell him that he can?

      But in the end you are right, this is rather gray area.

      •  He was egged on by neocons. (5+ / 0-)

        that is why the Georgian public is so shocked that the US military didn't come to their aid.

        As a column of soldiers passed through Gori, a black-robed priest came out of his church and made the sign of the cross again and again.

        One soldier, his face a mask of exhaustion, cradled a Kalashnikov.

        "We killed as many of them as we could," he said. "But where are our friends?"

        It was the question of the day. As Russian forces massed Sunday on two fronts, Georgians were heading south with whatever they could carry. When they met Western journalists, they all said the same thing: Where is the United States? When is NATO coming?

        McCain - Worse than Bush

        by MAORCA on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 10:02:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  One of the more important parts of the story. (5+ / 0-)

          They did not do this on their own.

        •  news for them: (0+ / 0-)

          physically defended Georgia means US troops shooting Russian Troops, and is potentially world war 3.

          If that happens, is Tblisi worth losing Washington DC to a nuke?

          We have no desire to offend you -- unless you are a twit!

          by ScrewySquirrel on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 10:07:31 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Vote McCain (0+ / 0-)

            It is becoming more and more obvious that we will need a "military" president. One who is prepared to lead the world into nuclear oblivion.

            All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.... Edmund Burke

            by cloudwatcher on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 10:34:05 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  ...and they call Sen O (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MAORCA

          the anti-christ. Stole an election.
          Lied to get us in war. Death and destruction--"shock and awe", war profiteerer, torturer,
          and now, did we deceive Georgia ? Just asking.

          http://www.state.gov/...

          U.S.-Georgia relations continue to be close. Extensive U.S. assistance is targeted to support Georgia's democratic, economic, and security reform programs, with an emphasis on institution-building and implementing lasting reforms. The United States has provided Georgia approximately $1.7 billion in assistance since 1991. On September 12, 2005, Georgia signed a compact with the Millennium Challenge Corporation for a five-year $295.3 million assistance package. Information about U.S. assistance to Georgia can be found at http://www.state.gov/...

          The United States works closely with Georgia to promote mutual security and counterterrorism interests. The United States provides Georgia with bilateral security assistance, including English-language and military professionalism training, through the International Military Education and Training (IMET) program. The multi-year Georgia Train and Equip Program (GTEP) ended in 2004, achieving its intended goals of enhancing Georgia's military capability and stimulating military reform. Launched in January 2005, the Georgia Sustainment and Stability Operations Program has advanced GTEP's goals and trained the Georgian contingent participating in coalition operations in Iraq. Partnership with the Georgia (U.S.) National Guard, visits by the Sixth Fleet and the Coast Guard to Georgia, and the Bilateral Working Group on Defense and Military Cooperation are also important components of our security relationship with Georgia.

          Promoting democracy and reform is another strategic pillar of our bilateral relationship with Georgia. In April 2006 the government passed a strong anti-trafficking-in-persons law. Since then, the government has taken further constructive steps to combat trafficking in persons. In 2007, Georgia moved up to the Tier 1 list, meaning that it fully complies with the minimum standards for the elimination of trafficking.

          SANKOFA(Akan) "One must return to the past in order to move forward."

          by MariaWr on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 10:18:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Invert your question (4+ / 0-)

      Did Saakashvili really think NATO and the USA would go to war with Russia over them?

      No, he thought Russia WOULDN'T go to war with NATO over Georgia.  It doesn't appear that Saakashvili really intended to completely overrun Ossetia: he appeared to be trying to seize the high ground and possibly the capital.

      I suspect he thought that the US and Europe would back him strongly, and that China wouldn't want anything to detract from the Olympics.  Together, I suspect he thought they would force Russia to the bargaining table and effectively force Russia to accept the Georgian gains.

      •  Forcing Russia (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        driftwood

        To talk....they usually only due that after a decade or so of bleeding both themselves and your country in the process of totally liquidating the countryside.

        OH-16: John Boccieri will finally end 36 years of Regula Rule.

        by marcvstraianvs on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 10:06:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not true (0+ / 0-)

          Russia has been forced to acquiese to the loss of allies in areas they view as critical, such as the Ukraine.  So Saahashvili was hoping Russia was still not able to respond effectively.

          •  Ukraine's strategic (0+ / 0-)

            Importance to Europe is MUCH greater than that of Georgia, and the Russian Black Sea Fleet is STILL based there even with Ukraine's disapproval...maybe Saakashvili just overvalued themselves.

            OH-16: John Boccieri will finally end 36 years of Regula Rule.

            by marcvstraianvs on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 10:14:29 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  plus I think he was seeing South Ossetia slipping (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        weasel, IndianaDemocrat

        away. Not doing anything against the creeping Russian influence would have meant letting them go (and the ethnic Georgians living there being forced to choose between staying - under Russian rule - or leaving for Georgia proper) and that I guess was not acceptable. So he gambled...

        This message has been intercepted by the US Government. Report all suspicious activity to your dear leader. Fear the non-believers.

        by minorityusa on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 10:17:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Will there be a Georgia left? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    allmost liberal european

    I haven't been keeping up, but the cities you cited appear to be major ones.  Is Russia headed towards the pipeline as well? Why did Saakashvili start this and did he really start the agression? Doesn't make sense to me...a pea-shooter facing C4. David and Goliath doesn't work well here.

    SANKOFA(Akan) "One must return to the past in order to move forward."

    by MariaWr on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 09:59:11 AM PDT

  •  Weakness and Perception (6+ / 0-)

    Compare the two world leaders:

    Putin leaves Beijing immediately after the opening ceremonies.  He flies to the Georgian border, reviews troops and meets with military commanders.

    W stays in Beijing, catches some of the events, plays volleyball with the women's beach team and huddles with the US basketball team.

    Who comes across as weaker or in the more powerful position?  Think the rest of the world sees this, especially those states who might be willing to play ball with Russia?  What's Iran thinking?  China?

    We look like idiot lightweights who don't even come come close to understanding real power politics.

    I ain't what I used to be, but who the hell is?

    by dizzydean on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 09:59:56 AM PDT

  •  Maybe Georgia attacked because Bush wants to play (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    IndianaDemocrat

    War, one more tome before leaving office. It was so much fun the first time.

    •  And Your Evidence Would Be?? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      weasel
      •  His past actions? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Euroliberal, MariaWr

        Maybe they were just blowing smoke on Jul 13, 2008:

        U.S., Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, and Ukraine conduct exercise in Georgia

        In the spirit of the NATO Partnership for Peace program, soldiers from the United States, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, and Ukraine will conduct the joint training exercise IMMEDIATE RESPONSE 2008 at Vaziani Military Base in Georgia beginning July 5, 2008.

        Georgia has provided consistent support to coalition Global War on Terrorism and Regional War on Terrorism operations and is currently the third largest force contributor to OIF, behind the U.S. and the United Kingdom. Georgia's geographic location also allows other allies and partners in the region to see the benefits of working with the United States.

        Future iterations of Immediate Response are planned for Georgia. Planning for IR08 began in 2006 and is designed to build on lessons learned from previous combined training and operations by giving commanders and their staffs a practical exercise in organizing, controlling, and supporting coalition stability and security operations.

        link

  •  So I have this gnawing question (5+ / 0-)

    Since we invaded, conquered and just about destroyed a foreign, sovereign nation half way around the world from us based on lies and forged documents, that did us absolutely no harm whatsoever, what moral authority do we have to tell Putin anything? I hate to see any nation over-power another, but we're the last nation on earth who should tell anyone else about their imperialism, especially since Georgia lies on Russia's border and is a perceived direct threat to Putin since Georgia is trying to gain entry into NATO. Just asking. It's like we're the pot calling the kettle black.

    You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war..... Albert Einstein,

    by tazz on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 10:02:01 AM PDT

    •  While it's true (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ArtSchmart

      Putin doesn't care for our moral authority anyway. We'd have had the same outcome. The real precedent here is Kosovo, although Iraq doesn't hurt.

      •  I met this British woman a few days ago who (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MariaWr

        put her finger on how the world perceives the US. We look like Baby Huey, big, real strong, and real dumb. I hate to envision the soon-to-be confrontation between Bush and Putin because Putin makes Bush look like the fall guy in one of Mel Brooks' 2000 year old man routines to Putin's Albert Einstein. McCain doesn't look much better against Putin, although I think this is the best thing to happen to McCain's candidacy.

        You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war..... Albert Einstein,

        by tazz on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 10:19:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  best thing for McCain? (0+ / 0-)

          McCain wants to start world War III.  Yeah, media narrative says its good for McCain't (but what isn't) when its obvious to me, at least, that this proves how very F***ing dangerous he is.

          To me, it comes off as deranged

          We have no desire to offend you -- unless you are a twit!

          by ScrewySquirrel on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 10:48:20 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  That's why he stayed at the games unlike Putin (0+ / 0-)

      Shrub knew he had no real call to make. Just posturing.

      SANKOFA(Akan) "One must return to the past in order to move forward."

      by MariaWr on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 10:22:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  So Much For That "peacekeeping" thing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MariaWr

    Anyone who still believes this has ANYTHING to do with "Peacekeeping" is a naive fool....

  •  post from Andrew Sullivan (3+ / 0-)

    Bush: The Reverse Carter
    11 Aug 2008 12:01 pm

    A reader imagines a senior Russian official basking in the Georgia invasion, and reminiscing fondly about the man who helped make it all possible:

    "What American president could possibly have done more for us?  He's destroyed the once solid American rapport with the Europeans, with his government more distrusted now than the Chinese. He's united the Middle East against America and destroyed forever America's authority to act there unilaterally. He will yet attack Iran, which would be the biggest boon for us of all. He will destroy their reactors, and we will sell them new ones, and fortify our gas alliance on a Moscow to Tehran axis. All of this opens the door for Russia to reassert itself precisely just as Russia rebuilds following a decade of uncertainty.  

    George W. Bush is exactly the president Russia would have wished for, the man who paves the way for Russia's reemergence with his own crass heavy-handedness. I remember when crass heavy-handedness was the Kremlin's forte!"
    Carter deeply weakened the US by fecklessness, naivete and inaction. Bush has weakened the US far more by fecklessness, naivete and extreme, ill-considered, badly managed action.

    The antidote to Carter was Reagan. The antidote to Bush is Obama.

  •  I suspect the current administration (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Euroliberal, driftwood

    still top heavy with "Russian" experts, applied their neocon fantasy engine to the region and suggested that the Georgians should not have any problems if they took back Kuwait Ossetia.

    The biggest threat to America is not communism, it's moving America toward a fascist theocracy... -- Frank Zappa

    by NCrefugee on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 10:06:19 AM PDT

  •  The taking of Gori is questionable... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    weasel

    Georgian officials have stated that the Russians have taken Gori.  Russian officials deny this.  A Reuters reporter in Gori stated that the city was completely deserted and no troops of either nation were present.

    My best guess is that the Georgians retreated and announced the Russians had taken it, assuming the Russians would go in.  The Russians, for whatever reason, have not gone in yet, although they would face no resistance, and the town is no-man's land between the two armies.

  •  The Guardian (0+ / 0-)

    has excellent coverage..they still have real journalists.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/...

    Think Tank. "A place where people are paid to think by the makers of tanks" Naomi Klein.

    by ohcanada on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 10:18:01 AM PDT

  •  Prof. King on Glenn Greenwald's site (3+ / 0-)

    audio wherein he states that the conflict would move to another level if the Russians were go to Tblisis. Gori is directly south of S. Ossetia, is very interesting.

    Prof. Charles King of Georgetown, in CSM.
    For Georgia, this war has been a disastrous miscalculation. South Ossetia and Abkhazia are now completely lost. It is almost impossible to imagine a scenario under which these places – home to perhaps 200,000 people – would ever consent to coming back into a Georgian state they perceive as an aggressor.

    IT TOOK five years, the deaths of 4,100 US soldiers... to make Iraq safe for Exxon. ~ Derrick Z. Jackson

    by Gorette on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 10:18:24 AM PDT

  •  McCain confused with all the tribes and factions (3+ / 0-)

    He wants to go back to colors.. Much easier for him

  •  Some see US having a hand in it... (0+ / 0-)

    Link

    War between Russia and Georgia orchestrated from USA

    By Pravda

    09/08/08 "Pravda" -- The US administration urged for an immediate cease-fire in the conflict between Russia and Georgia over the unrecognized republic of South Ossetia.

    In the meantime, Russian officials believe that it was the USA that orchestrated the current conflict. The chairman of the State Duma Committee for Security, Vladimir Vasilyev, believes that the current conflict is South Ossetia is very reminiscent to the wars in Iraq and Kosovo.

    "The things that were happening in Kosovo, the things that were happening in Iraq – we are now following the same path. The further the situation unfolds, the more the world will understand that Georgia would never be able to do all this without America. South Ossetian defense officials used to make statements about imminent aggression from Georgia, but the latter denied everything, whereas the US Department of State released no comments on the matter. In essence, they have prepared the force, which destroys everything in South Ossetia, attacks civilians and hospitals. They are responsible for this. The world community will learn about it," the official said.

    snip

    The Georgian administration has found the use to its arms, which they have been purchasing during the recent several years," Lavrov said. "The fact that Georgian peacemakers in the structure of joint peacemaking forces opened fire on their Russian comrades from one and the same contingent speaks for itself, I think," the minister added.

    "Now it is clear to us why Georgia never accepted Russia’s offer to sign a legally binding document not to use force for the regulation of the South Ossetian conflict," Lavrov said. "Not so long ago, before the military actions in South Ossetia, Georgia’s President Saakashvili said that there was no point in such a document because Georgia would not use force against its people, as he said. It just so happens that it is using it," Sergei Lavrov said.

    Sergei Lavrov believes that the international community should stop turning a blind eye on Georgia’s active deals to purchase arms.

    "We have repeatedly warned that the international community should not turn a blind eye on massive purchases of offensive arms, in which the Georgian administration has been involved during the recent two years," Lavrov said.

    SANKOFA(Akan) "One must return to the past in order to move forward."

    by MariaWr on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 10:41:45 AM PDT

  •  170 Americans evacuated from Georgia! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    forgore

    The country is gone. Americans are being evacuated into Armenia. Just had breaking news on CNN. Now they're talking about the "pet olympics" I HATE mainstream media.

  •  Putin is Now Evoking Kosovo (2+ / 0-)

    Claiming that the Georgian shelling of the South Ossetian capital was a war crime (which it likely was), and that as such Georgia has forfeited its claims to South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

    Saakashvili is a fucking moron who got played by George W. Bush, just like Saddam Hussein got played by George HW Bush.

    6/24/05: Charlie the Tuna Creator Dies En lieu of flowers, please bring mayonnaise, chopped celery and paprika.

    by LunkHead on Mon Aug 11, 2008 at 11:31:52 AM PDT

    •  A moron, yes. But did Bush play anything? (0+ / 0-)

      Is Bush even a player? How about some neocons who told Saakashvili he could trust the US?

      I don't think it has to be Bush, it could be someone from the Cheney apparatus.

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